Market exchange

I wish I had the time and dedication you have regarding the market.
I understand everything you all are saying, but it takes lots of time even using spreadsheets and all.

I'd rather go to the market once in a while and sell and buy as needed.

Broke, who told you that the market value and barn value is not the same?

It is even in the German FAQ. The title says barn value and the text says market value http://de.bigpoint.com/farmerama/board/index.php?threads/werte-scheunenwerte.3001/

Simply because the Devs choose not to show them in your barn does not mean they are not the same.
The fact that the base items DO show in the barn is a very simple one, because you need to donate them in the Farmer Society Quests when opening new levels of all Artisan's

EDIT:
To me, it seems, all these terms are used way too long in a wrong way, and players got used to them.

I only see two things in the game now:
In the barn -> Exchange value
In the market -> Regular price

The only thing that moves is the 'suggested' Regular price. BUT the lowest it will go is the same as the Exchange value (except for some of the Artisan items then).

Sorry if I offend anyone with my point of view on it... 

Thank you both for the explanation
I believe I understand now.  
I need to find a farmer on my market to sell back and forth too lol
Before everyone and their mother owns a weasel pen!

I finally had time to read through the posts. I was able to keep up with you'all. 

My experiences with Pink Jelly & White Innocence. The game keeps giving the Pink Jelly away as rewards, and I personally forget to use it. Now that we can do other things on our fields during breeding. I run buffs based on what I am doing on the fields. I tend to my fields 1st, before I breed. I only breed on Breeding days. Anyhow, by the time I get to breeding, I have already filled all my buffs so I can't use Pink Jelly unless, I stop another. I will rarely stop a buff so my solution is to just wait a little longer for my breeding to finish. I almost always use 4 pheromones so we are talking about 9 minutes extra (depends on CR buff) with out the Pink Jelly. I've got 9 minutes so there is no real need for Pink Jelly. I have 155 Pink Jelly. I do not buy or sell them lately. A year or so ago, I used to sell them when I would remember.

I currently have 118 White Innocence. I get 1 every so often from a giver thingy that I bought years ago. I am too cheap to use SG often so the only time I use WI is when I am starting an event so I don't use much. Plus, I forget to sell it. 

I find that selling Craft products to be a pain. Too many times, my stuff would not sell & I had to take a loss so I kind of gave up selling the stuff. 

Every farmer is different, but I think my reasonings for not using nor selling these 2 things might be behind their under use in the game & in the market. 

I personally think CAC will always be needed so in MHO it will always have the potential for going up in the market. My next choice would be Pineapple Cake. I think this is an under used buff that gives fantastic rewards. Since, I am primarily an animal farmer who has all the BAHA crops she wants. I use the Rainforest just for trees. (The reason I do not have 2 fields of Baha animals is that I can't keep up with the feed production for 2 fields & I refuse to buy animal feed.) I use a PC when I am not growing crops on the Mainland. 

Over the last year, I used to get my PC for about 10K. It is now about 20K so this 1/2 price sale. I finally bought the recipe for 25BB so I can make my own. Aluntino taught me his formula for determining if a craft product is worth making or better bought. I have no clue about the PC's value, but I like the convenience of making it instead of paying i20K a pop.

A few pages back Broke, you were talking to Sleepy about making a spread sheet with the EV, Market price and beginning price (EV/MP). I did this for 8 animals. I also included columns for EV*.8 - buying price & EV*1.2 - the leave alone price for 9 animals. 

These numbers do not hold or have as much meaning since they are not lettuce. Meaning that the price for animals is so far above the EV that analising the EV for determining when to start & stop buying dose not make sense to me - or rather I do not see the helpfulness of these numbers. 

I will attempt to display my chart. Since, I can't quote. This will be intereasting. 

Animal	Quantity	Exchange Value	Market Price  01-16-17	EV/ Market Price	0.8	1.2
Chickens	8,611	25	789.69	31	20	30
Rabbits	2,135	72	2,631.74	36	57.6	86.4
Ducks	2,213	95	941.24	9	76	114
Bats	1,290	220	6,075.73	27	176	264
Cats	1,357	450	9,128.62	20	360	540
Dogs	1,401	450	4,892.37	10	360	540
Frogs	1,568	382	12,437.59	32	305.6	458.4
Peacocks	1,700	340	9,762.99	28	272	408

Hey! I did it. Sometimes, I be so smart.

So Broke, Can you help me understand how this information will help me turn my animals into big bucks so I can buy my breeders?

Right now, I am following my gut and buying any Peacock under 12K since I think the price will rise above 12K when the  Peacock breeding event starts.

Since, I raise my own animals. I usually sell when I think/ feel the selling price is high enough or when I just need to increase my CCs.

I am reluctant to buy, but want to over come this fear. My fear comes from having to record and analyze too much stuff which is why I just chose 8 animals. They are high priced animals, because I need big numbers to see the changes. I am not afraid of losing a little while I learn.

I have a secret stash of stuff, if I get to poor. I have over 800 + of each mainland  animal feed so when I feel more comfortable & the prices are right. I will sell 1/2 of this inventory.
.

@Sleepy

First, thank you for the interaction.  I'll try and put some order to all this but there is so much information presented by many here that I know all will not be satisfied.

Okay, you have rightly mentioned the difficulty with putting a tutorial together for a new player. As I stated very early, exchange values (EV) are misunderstood and misinterpreted throughout this game. This is definitely not a beginner topic.  As we began very simply, the discussion turned to several areas of the game quickly and each can be pursued.  

There are people commenting here that have played this game for several years.  Even so, the basic terms are not clear to all and they are definitely not used properly which has added to the confusion here (and in the game as well)  over time.

Congratulations!  As disorganized as this discussion my appear, the discussion and actions and participation by many here is the MOST productive I have ever seen in this game.  And believe it or not, all this happened quickly and openly. Again, you do not have new players here either.  

The topic is one where every aspect of the game has an influence.  For instance, several effect of the ongoing event will not be in the game for several months and the only way of seeing many will be through aspects of the market.

Let's really confuse this discussion now!  The current event involves a significant amount of breeding.  Power Feed is a revenue source for BP from this game and they do not want it destroyed OR any effect pop up that is not anticipated.  Every breeding animal has an EV also. Some players like breeding and know very little or nothing about the use of EVs in the area. But BP is using them as we can see from the breeding animals called in the different quests.  

(Working and interrupted, will be back)

RL work interrupting you?!  hit the boss:     and kick em out 

escalonilla wrote:I wish I had the time and dedication you have regarding the market.
I understand everything you all are saying, but it takes lots of time even using spreadsheets and all.

I'd rather go to the market once in a while and sell and buy as needed.

Market to EVs only provide one a mark at the point in time the market price is recorded, nothing more.

The initial market to EV computed provides each individual with a good benchmark for each item compute.

Say we set up a spread sheet for only BAHA tree fruit.

The first time we take the market price and then compute the market to EV ratio and we have a solid benchmark for the item computed for as long as we choose to play the game.

Whenever we take the market price again Even after months) and compute the ratio we can begin to compare. This is where the power of use begins to surface.  (I work with two decimal places and have used three.)  We can have the spread sheet package to compute the difference between one time period and another.  

Just from the simple differences we can easily see which tree fruit has moved up or down or was about the same and which was more.  

AND   You said it:  " ... time ... ."   The first set up takes time.  The above is simply accurate for BAHA tree fruit and we could relate our knowledge of the game to it.  

But the above will not provide a strong basis for conclusion on a specific crop!  Why?  Simple, we have not collected and analyzed the crop data.  

BP developers have all this information anytime they want, as often as they want, they can have it by individual market, it can be generated for the entire game, for any crop, a class of animals, any animal and on and on.  The game is controlled and balanced with this information and events are designed accordingly.

@escalonilla

Most in the game are buying and selling as they feel needed using method which sem logical to them.  Most do not want accuracy and do not have to time or wish to spend the time in order to have that accuracy.

Many do not want to see ll that there is to see.  

Sadly, many do not believe that they can see more honestly or even how and the way s right in front of us.... if we choose to use it.

After a period of say a year collecting data once a month for say crops ....... One is able to look at which crops move the same way another crop moves or whether in move in reverse or at all  (one takes the same information and looks at what is called correlations).

If one wishes to begin then ... one must do it! .... if not then ... do something else or nothing.

EV analysis is only a method that is beginning to be used by game players with increasing frequency.

Tookie wrote:RL work interrupting you?!  hit the boss:     and kick em out 

She knows quite well I will farm on her time.  

For what she gets out of me she needs to do some harvesting on my farm.  

And you can be well assured I've said it

And you can be well assured she has never agreed to harvest my farm either 

zensioux wrote:A few pages back Broke, you were talking to Sleepy about making a spread sheet with the EV, Market price and beginning price (EV/MP). I did this for 8 animals. I also included columns for EV*.8 - buying price & EV*1.2 - the leave alone price for 9 animals. 

These numbers do not hold or have as much meaning since they are not lettuce. Meaning that the price for animals is so far above the EV that analising the EV for determining when to start & stop buying dose not make sense to me - or rather I do not see the helpfulness of these numbers. 

I will attempt to display my chart. Since, I can't quote. This will be intereasting. 

Animal	Quantity	Exchange Value	Market Price  01-16-17	EV/ Market Price	0.8	1.2
Chickens	8,611	25	789.69	31	20	30
Rabbits	2,135	72	2,631.74	36	57.6	86.4
Ducks	2,213	95	941.24	9	76	114
Bats	1,290	220	6,075.73	27	176	264
Cats	1,357	450	9,128.62	20	360	540
Dogs	1,401	450	4,892.37	10	360	540
Frogs	1,568	382	12,437.59	32	305.6	458.4
Peacocks	1,700	340	9,762.99	28	272	408

Hey! I did it. Sometimes, I be so smart.

So Broke, Can you help me understand how this information will help me turn my animals into big bucks so I can buy my breeders?

Right now, I am following my gut and buying any Peacock under 12K since I think the price will rise above 12K when the  Peacock breeding event starts.

Since, I raise my own animals. I usually sell when I think/ feel the selling price is high enough or when I just need to increase my CCs.

I am reluctant to buy, but want to over come this fear. My fear comes from having to record and analyze too much stuff which is why I just chose 8 animals. They are high priced animals, because I need big numbers to see the changes. I am not afraid of losing a little while I learn.

Hi and sorry it has taken me so long to get back.  Let's see what we can see.  

(1) Sleepy has given instructions on how to copy tables here.  The answer is contained in Messages to Tookie and Sleepy.

(2)  You have eight animals listed.  Your ratios in EV/Market Price is your beginning for these animals for as long as you ever play the game.  

(3) The use of 2 or 3 decimal places in the ratio will enable you to see small changes.  Most changes do not occur quickly but very slowly over time.  

For instance, if you had had previous ratios, you would have seen all animals increasing yet peacock would have remained in the same position.  If you had had ccs AND you felt there was a future in peacocks from your knowledge of the game then you would have bought peacocks slowly over time and held. 

Once the peacock ratio made the significant move based on rumors the price went up as did the ratio.  

If you do not want further risk and there is profit in peacock sales for you now then sell all or a part, up to you, ... this is used to help you and no one else but you and in your way.

(4)  You have three birds listed: chicken, duck, and peacock.  All birds increased in price and therefore in ratio during the past event.  The chicken was the highest before and most likely remained so, the peacock ratio had moved because of the rumor prior to the event and there probably was little effect during the event itself and quite possibly even a slight drop but no change in position.  

(5)  The decision to purchase more peacock at this time comes with risk.  (More can be said and reasons given and based on your style.)

(6) columns .8 and 1.2 mean nothing to me yet they may have meaning for you.  Only you know this as this is your work.  My question is what are you trying to see by making such a computation?  

(7)  Even though there was an event calling for birds, the duck is very very low in comparison to the chicken and the peacock (remember, there are other birds in the game).  If these three birds are all YOU wish to consider then the wisest decision would be to produce the peacock, followed by the chicken, followed by the duck.

The ratio will not tell you this.  Here is something new but again right in front of us.  All feed has an EV too.  If one takes the EV of the finished chicken and the duck and the peacock and subtractts the EV of the related feed one will get the EV of the animal minus the EV of the feed (the animal minus the feed).  

If you were to divide that number into the market price it becomes obvious that peacock is the one to produce out of the three.  <--------  There is an even better way but the market to EV ratio of the related feed must be available. (I'll leave that alone since we are not using it.)

(more to come)

@zensioux
(8)  Remember, the duck was used in the previous event and the ratio increased.  It is likely to drop slightly but remain higher than before the event.  The nature of the event did have an effect on the price of birds in general.

Based upon the information in the chart and the willingness to invest for future gain:  The duck is out of line!  

This has been true for sometime.  Prior to the event this farm would buy pages and pages and pages of ducks.  I want to say it gathered 52,000 prior to this event.  

But as soon as that ratio moved up into a clear profit position the farm began dumping ducks. And not in 1s or 2s or 10' but in lots of 100, 300, and 500.

Now this is where my judgment comes in after listening to everyone in the forum and separating the trash from the good information.  And it now faces YOU with peacocks.  You must sell in order to get your funds out of them and only if YOU choose.

If ever that peacock ratio is so high that you begin to doubt that it can be sustained then sell as fast as you can and get out of that market!  

The higher that ratio becomes in relation to others, the more risk you take of not selling at your asking price. With the 1,700 you now have, they can be sold easily at the proper price (this is where the lessons of playing lettuce surface and few realize it). You do not need all those ratios at this point.  If you choose, you can compute it for just the peacock at anytime with a hand calculator or just go with your feelings and judgement.  (At this point at least you have something to begin to work with.  Something solid is better than nothing!)  Using over time and adding data whenever you feel like it ... before too long you have more than you will know what to do with.  

(9) There are birds, mammals and a single reptile mixed together.  They can be separated quite easily if YOU choose.  Without considering feed I would just go with what I have.  And that may indeed be not quite right but not far off the mark either.  

(10) You want ccs?  Well just begin trading the rabbits!  They are used primarily in breeding, anaconda feed and angora.  You have a base inventory of 2,135 to work with.  This farm buys and sells rabbits every single day.  The ratio already indicates the high market price.  

We don't have time everyday with this constant data collection and analysis and we just have to use what we have until whenever the next time comes.  Rabbits are identified.  Are you clear on the reason for dividing any purchase price by .90?  (If not we can straighten that out real quick and there is a reason.  Please let me know.)

(11) Bats!  Ratio is #4 and time to think about whether or not you wish to sell the bats.  Or wait for the event and gamble for a better price (which also would show a higher ratio and using it  during that time is only for something to do).  

If we try and squeeze every single cc out of everything then it will not happen and more listings than necessary will go unsold.  No need to get greedy as you have a tool to see something else if YOU choose.  

Our little friend was learning to do math and to sell at the same time.  He of course got greedy once he had a little inventory that his offers did not sell.  He was so busy trying to get that last possible cc that he would get nothing.        I had a few words for him that amounted to:  Stop being so spaced-out and drop your price so that junk will sell!  

And he then liked math and playing with ratios all of a sudden. My message:  Now leave those stupid ratios alone, you already know that, now just sell that junk and go play somewhere else.     

That's about what we have to do, just sell it considering all that we know, keep learning, do better next time and move on.

(12) Dogs!  Perhaps a problem here.  A single market reading can be a bad representative of the market price (sometimes glancing at the sliding index helps).  Mammals were called for and cats could be the animal where the reading is bad for us to use.  Or it could be dogs as someone could have just been dumping (selling off) their dogs.  

Something is not right!  I would leave the spreadsheet as it is.  But I would use a calculator and compute just the dog index periodically in order to get a better idea of the actual index. If it continues to remain low then based on only the information presented, I would hold the dogs and gamble until closer to faq release and even to during the next event itself.

May I answer anything else. And thank you.

@zensioux

A day has passed and I would like to be very critical of your spread sheet set up.  I made the same error when beginning.  In a post you mentioned you wanted to make ccs.  There is something missing!  What is missing would prevent me from seeing clearly.  What is it?  All of the animals are not included in the initial design of the spread sheet.  

If what you have is all that concerns you then what you have is sufficient.  

I updated my spread sheet for animals three weeks ago.  (Not good!  I wish I had the time to just do one or two a week but sometimes I cannot.)  

Out of all the animals there are two with immediate ccs in them (if one is ahead of their market).  I went to a farm today and ran through the market and went straight to the animal. The animal still sat on the market under priced and offers had been there for days.  It was clear.  BP will do something with the animal I am sure.  Next I went to that animal's feed on the market.  It too remained under priced.  I went to the feed ingredients and one of the ingredients was significantly under priced.  And there is more to it and all indicate an adjustment on the way and the market players do not see it ...... yet!  They will somehow. 

My farm on that market really has no concern for anything, it just exists.  Periodically it sets up just to take ccs.  And the farm purchased the items on the market needed to produce the animal and it will after what has already become obvious to most.  It even purchased a few of the under priced animals.  (But not enough ccs to buy pages and pages of them.)  

I did not set up a spread sheet for all items items initially or included all items within a class (animals for instance).  And I missed ccs because I could not see it.  Now that spread sheets are developed one can very easily see more than I care to.  

Say my spread sheet on animals (even though complete) did not show a significant different in the ratios.  If all I had was animals then maybe the next time I updated the spread sheet the animal would surface and maybe not.

But I have all areas now.  So perhaps the feed would indicate something abnormal.  Or perhaps the crop would.  Or perhaps the tree fruit.  Some other area would have alerted me me perhaps.  (There is nearly no way to fail.)

Also I glanced at white innocence on that market only because of the discussion here.  Same slow upward movement!  

To conclude, the broke farm could not earn some very very very easy ccs and only because I did not fully develop the spread sheet. I have seen several others trying and miss ccs out of incomplete spread sheets.  I usually say nothing until they miss the ccs once and they do not understand why.  They will ask why they missed the ccs.  The answer:  You did not want to see because you did not include the item in your spread sheet.    .  

The price was paid to learn and we laugh and go on.

Always so telling but not telling. But I guess you do not want to share details on the forum itself.

I will see if I got time to make a simple sheet following the KISS method.
First I got other things to do, still first on my list is rewriting parts of the forum and calculators.